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Stay in Europe or get out  

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  1. 1. Stay in Europe or get out

    • Stay in the European Community
    • Leave the European Community


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No worries mate and in two years time I will bring this thread up again ? Did I mention I have duel nationality and can have two passports ! Win win ☘️

So a deal is done and    ‘We have taken back control of laws and our destiny. We have taken back control of every jot and tittle of our regulation in a way that is complete and unfettered.’  How good

That's it. Our rights as citizens taken away by the privileged elite so they can pay less tax. And the removal of the rights of 3+million fellow citizens without democracy. There is a fundamental (Bri

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Staunch remainer here (I'm very much an internationalist at heart anyway).

 

My biggest beef with BREXIT is that I don't believe that the British population are educated and well informed enough to be given the decision on something as utterly complex as leaving the EU (I include myself in that statement). All of the BREXITEER politicians seem to have gone into hiding now that it's all happened as if they have no plan on what to do now that we are officially leaving. "The morons" also known as Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson are about as useful as a chocolate teapot. Their lack of realistic substance in the Brexit campaign certainly left a LOT to be desired.

 

Irrespective of the outcome, it should never have been something that should have been put to the British people and that was something I thought long before the referendum too place. Many elements of it was nothing but falsehood and having fake news and BS information from both sides, it became doomed from the start. Our truly appalling tabloid press did not help matters either scaremongering both sides and the lines of 'we want our country back' made me cringe.

 

The entire thing is as a joke.

 

The whole situation is vary sad as it feels like we are regressing, not progressing which was the big dream of being a united community of countries. EU is not perfect, it never will be, but the amount of time and effort being wittered away in sorting this mess out seems like a waste of energy.

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I think we should be able to stand on our own feet without other countries telling us what to do and who we should allow in. The European Community is failing and other countries will leave if we do. Time for a new start and make Briton great again.

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I think we should be able to stand on our own feet without other countries telling us what to do and who we should allow in. The European Community is failing and other countries will leave if we do. Time for a new start and make Briton great again.

 

We do stand on our own two feet. Why also should we not help and be part of a wider community? It's selfish just to think we should 'go it alone' and forget the part we play in the world. The world is becoming a fully globalised entity and it's the progressive way forward. How is the EU failing when it's done so much to unify and progress and joined community? I'm fairly well informed, but I don't know enough about it and neither does the majority of the British population which makes having a referendum on it completely nonsensical. I don't think I had the knowledge to vote, that in part to the media.

 

Would you let the factory workers in the north make a key decision on poultry farmers rights in the south without knowing what they do? Same deal. The information from all sides was inaccurate and incorrect.

 

Despite my opinions and vote in this poll, this is a democratic society and if that's what the British people want, then we should go with it.

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We do stand on our own two feet. Why also should we not help and be part of a wider community? It's selfish just to think we should 'go it alone' and forget the part we play in the world. The world is becoming a fully globalised entity and it's the progressive way forward. How is the EU failing when it's done so much to unify and progress and joined community? I'm fairly well informed, but I don't know enough about it and neither does the majority of the British population which makes having a referendum on it completely nonsensical.

 

Would you let the factory workers in the north make a key decision on poultry farmers rights in the south without knowing what they do? Same deal. The information from all sides was inaccurate and incorrect.

 

You could be right and I could be wrong but my vote is cast and I have had enough of what the European Commission is doing now with their hands round our neck to squeeze every drop of life out of us. No I'm sorry they should respect the will of the British people and find an exist that is real to both sides.

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Oh I totally agree (I added a line whilst you were writing that), democracy has spoken, I don't agree with it and would maintain my 'remain' vote, but it should be followed through although they can't seem to do that either! :lol:

 

What I will say is, there are plenty of British companies that already have global trade agreements which won't be affected. Companies like Dyson for example have a global trade agreement.

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It’s an out from me. I made my decision at the time and I’m not going to get cold feet. I do not support the four indivisible fundamentals of the EU and therefore I cannot support the EU, nor do I wish to be a member of it.

What I’m really rather sick of and has become very apparent is the self proclaimed “left” or as they like to believe the educated and righteous. What that actually appears to mean is, if you don’t agree with my views your less than me and ignorant, without a hint of irony.

 

I do firmly believe though, and I said it at the time, is that regardless of the result we won’t leave properly. Any exit will be in name only. Those with power in general rather like to keep hold of it.

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I voted to stay back then but now, and as soon as the results came in, I think we ghouls just get on with it. I agree with Simon, it was too big an issue to give the public a vote on but they did. Let’s just get on with it, weather the storm and see where we are in 3-5 years (in my opinion we will be creating a new union that current EU members and beyond will be seriously thinking about joining)

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I'm out. The reason I'm out is that EU makes a mockery of democracy because the real power is held by unelected members of the european elite. They answer to no one but themselves.

 

This abuse of power goes against all democratic principles. Then there is the waste of money the weekly shift to and from Strasbourg to Brussels. I they cant even agree where the european Head quarters should be how can make decisions that affect us and all other european ordinry people ?

 

The end of the euro is in sight from Italy's actions later this month so just hold your breath and wait......

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I agree with funkysi, The British populace should never have had this vote (It should never have been discussed anyway), There is nothing special about our island, we deserve no more than any other European country on our shores. If anything, they are better than us, When have you ever seen motorway in France queuing? When have you seen towns in Germany covered in rubbish and litter? Police cuts in Belgium? Governments with no money in Scandinavia? We should accept the fact that we are a small island on the edge of the Atlantic that still suffers from ideals of grandeur to a lost empire and a history starting nearly 100 years ago. The problem isn't the EU, the problem is our politicians and our view of our countries politics. The referendum was used to get rid of David Cameron, the public mis-understood what a referendum is and treated it like an election because they were sick of him. The media played a big part in "Fake News" because they saw the pound signs and lets face it are as un-biased as Kim Jong Un

 

The EU are our family, our brothers and sisters. When your family is in trouble, do you cut and run? Do you say "right, I'm off. I might see you around, by the way before I leave ill need that money back"? We should be doing what we would all do with our family, sticking around, putting heads together and saying: "The EU is struggling, throwing money at it is not working, how can we fix this?". i was always taught to face your problems and not run away. If this was a war, this would be considered a surrender and I bet the Daily Mail would have a thing or to to say about that!

 

The only thing affecting this "No or No Deal" thing now are peoples egos, our politicians are afraid to stop it because it will split the Tory party again, The lib dems are pretty much useless after the coalition and Labour seem wrapped up in racism. It all comes down to pride and it always has with our politicians, they are too afraid to admit they were wrong and they are willing to destroy everything. The EU (to me at least) has be trying to find a middle ground, sure they dig their heels in sometimes, but if you are at a market haggling for apples, you will haggle back just for the hell of it! Remember, we are the ones leaving, we are the ones that will have to deal with them, they will always have the upper hand. They will replace us with another country that isn't an island, a country who wants to be in the EU, isn't as xenophobic to the idea of moving to another country, doesn't use another currency and isn't full of a population that goes horse racing to kick someone else's head in.

 

We can form bonds with other countries as the leavers keep stating, but do you want to be in the USA pocket again? 1945-2005 we were paying off the debt for WWII and look what we got dragged into, no thank you. Canada, ex-empire, sure they can trade with us, but they have the 2nd largest economy on their border that makes everything, not to mention the 2nd largest factory (Mexico) a stone throw away and even closer when the Pan-American Highway is completed. Same goes for south america. Asia has China AND Japan, so no point there and Australia is on China door step. Why buy things from us that are more expensive and take 3 months on a ship, when China produce is cheaper and take 3 weeks. Not to mention most of Australia natural resources go to China to make stuff, so they get even better deals. We don't have rare metals, gold, silver, bauxite or iron ore. Even if we did its too expensive to mine and we cant make trains run with people on, let alone goods... All we have is Europe, its on our doorstep, its 12 miles away. Its 90 mins on a ship, 30 mins on a train. Why walk to the fish & chip shop on the other side of the city, when you live next to one that sells good food cheaply?!

 

We should swallow our pride, go cap in hand to the EU and say "Sorry, we messed up. We would like to join fully this time, but like Germany, we want a leadership role to help improve the EU to the next level.". We then change the political system so that the MEPs are included in votes and therefore we get to vote on EU ideals. The pound is now ruined and will never bounce back, so accept the Euro. its 1:1 now (a few select few made money off that, but that's a story for another day) so inflation wont be a problem (unlike when Italy joined) and we wont loose out on currency exchange deals or trade deals. We follow all the EU rules by the book anyway, so nothing new will be sprung on us and rather than writing a whole new law book like we will have to if we leave, we can metaphorically cross out "British" and write "European Law" on the cover, saving more public money...

 

This post will anger quite a few of you, some will not understand, other might think I'm brainwashed and stupid. So be it, we are all different and it helps keep this world interesting. I don't mock others for their views, I'm just trying to put my point across as its my view and if we understand each other views, acceptance and understand will dissolve hate and distrust. One day there will be peace and love! :angel::angel:

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I'm out. The reason I'm out is that EU makes a mockery of democracy because the real power is held by unelected members of the european elite. They answer to no one but themselves.

 

This abuse of power goes against all democratic principles. Then there is the waste of money the weekly shift to and from Strasbourg to Brussels. I they cant even agree where the european Head quarters should be how can make decisions that affect us and all other european ordinry people ?

 

The end of the euro is in sight from Italy's actions later this month so just hold your breath and wait......

 

Just adding to the discussion, not critising anyone's point. However, firstly, the EU is not perfect and never will be, just like any multi-party democracy. Secondly, UK ministers are no different in that sense with false and empty promises. As an example, at what point did you believe Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson's claim that the NHS would suddently have an exta £350m? It's no different from either side of the camp.

 

In terms of non-elected peers, who wanted Teresa May in office? The British public didn't, she was self-elected into her position and who voted for a coalition with the LibDems at the previous general election? The British public didn't.

 

The euro will never die out, it's a valuable internationally traded currency. Just because a few countries don't like it, doesn't mean it will fail. The EU is not doomed, but it does need some reform. Quiting out on it is not the answer.

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Just to pull you up there Si, Farage didn’t state the £350m. That claim was from vote leave of which he wasn’t part, in fact he was publicly excluded. He even said he didn’t recognise that amount during the campaign, I believe he was claiming more like £130m.

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I stand corrected however irrespective of that, it was a claim made by leave campaigners and championed by both Johnson and Farage. My point being that there are false promises from both sides and the amounts banded around will never be substantiated.

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The italian government has promised to up Pensions etc and has to submit its budget to Brussels in early october. Its going to about 3% of GDP over which is against EU rules so they will have to reject it.

 

What is an anti EU govt in Italy do in response ? I think there is a very good chance they will didtch the euro, if not membership of the EU. Hungary got barred from voting recently because they submitted a budget that breached rules and if that happens to Italy it'll be like red rag to a bull

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The italian government has promised to up Pensions etc and has to submit its budget to Brussels in early october. Its going to about 3% of GDP over which is against EU rules so they will have to reject it.

 

What is an anti EU govt in Italy do in response ? I think there is a very good chance they will didtch the euro, if not membership of the EU. Hungary got barred from voting recently because they submitted a budget that breached rules and if that happens to Italy it'll be like red rag to a bull

 

Well you can't take out more than you put back in, that's true with anything and that's the whole point of a budget. Look what happened 10 years ago after Labour's budgetry mess cost the country dearly. Without a balance (a budget where the numbers all work), anything can fail.

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Well you can't take out more than you put back in, that's true with anything and that's the whole point of a budget. Look what happened 10 years ago after Labour's budgetry mess cost the country dearly. Without a balance (a budget where the numbers all work), anything can fail.

 

Shouldnt that be everything can fail ?

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Shouldnt that be everything can fail ?

 

I'm directing that comment toward budgetary strategies. Our own budgetary strategy failed because of incompetent ministers. The EU's budget simply has to align and the checks and balances are there to make sure that happens which is why some countries’ budgets get rejected. Our own fiscal budget should have been rejected if it were under EU governance which would have been a good thing. Call it big brother, call it what you will, but without EU intervention, the system would collapse. Our budget collapsed because UK fiscal policy was under our own governance.....but it failed. My point being, that without that buffer and steerage, countries who’s budgets don’t meet the set requirements can ultimately fail. The argument that EU rules are a negative in this case is unjust.

 

The EU is a great insurance policy in that respect.

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The biggest problem conceptually (a moot point to some extent for us) is that it assumes parity, on economically, standardisation and moral issues. The current 28 member states do not have this. This is a foundational flaw, and is and has, caused a lot of hardship and upheaval throughout the EU long before “Brexit”.

We all got a chance to cast a vote. The same information was available for all who sought it out to make decisions, it was down to the individual to make that choice as best they could or abstain if they chose. That is democracy, a voice for all citizens equally, I strongly believe in that and that either way we must except the decision of the majority and those who we employ to carry out our wishes must do so to the best of thier ability.

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The same information was available to us all, correct. But like nearly all political, corporate and financially-fuelled drives how much of that information was factual or truthful. We are unfortunately all the same and make our decisions blindly based on maticulously engineered bullshit.

Call me a sceptic if you will, but I used to work for a global corporation who looked after the legal side and public relations for many, many household brands, high-ranking political figures and corporations. These clients pay serious money to have teams craft the truth, distort and hide the lies and bend the law for them on a daily basis so that the 'public' has a particular perception which could not be further from reality.

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Very true and what is for many an emotional choice as as well or even more so than economic etc, truth is a liquid material. If you want to explore who spent more money and bent more truths well, it’s politics, you’d be at it till there’s no Europe to leave.

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